Tangentially ... If my White Midwestern dad were still with us, it would have been his 100th birthday this past Sunday. So I've been thinking about dads, and my particular dad, a lot. He was Fun Dad until I hit puberty with all its turmoil and confusions, and then he became Ghost Dad. I must have been close to 40 before he ever said "I love you" to me (we both cried). In one of the last conversations we had, when dementia was turning him back into Ghost Dad, he told me about coming home from the Pacific in WWII, landing in Seattle on New Year's Eve, having been ripped from his rural family, witnessed death, experienced dengue fever, been far away for far too long, been aged beyond his young-adult years. Mom said it was the only time she had ever heard him talk about his wartime experience out loud. He didn't know a sparkplug from a server, but he sure would have loved Wordle. He would have reveled in this political moment. He would have hoped with me. He would have gone door-knocking with me, if I asked him to. What a blessing, to know that about my nerdy progressive dad.
Watching all the memes and tweets about Tim Walz has been really funny, but you bring up a great point, Garrett, about the connectivity of dads.
I heard an NPR story several years ago about the epidemic of male loneliness and it resonated big time. I have one really good friend. We grew up together, talk or text at least daily, have been there for every one of our big life events, the whole nine yards. Other than him, it’s crickets. I have acquaintances, but not friends. Then I looked around at other men I know and saw the same thing. I started making an effort to initiate purposeful connections with other men I know. I started texting randomly to grab a beer or dinner. Sometimes it’s just two of us and sometimes we need a bigger table. It’s been pretty great overall, but I learned something very quickly. Purposeful connection is hard work. I go too long between sending out invites and often find I’m sending them when it’s convenient in my life which suggests that I’m not prioritizing this as much as I’d like to believe I am.
Regardless, I’m determined to keep it up. We need to be talking to each other and sharing thoughts about being dads, parenting kids, being husbands, masculinity in general, and how to do all of this. We might as well just admit that we’re all scared to death pretty much all the time and work together to get through it. It sure beats an epidemic of loneliness.
Connection is hard work! As a parent of two kids under five I appreciate that. Which makes me wonder: was there a time in your adult life when you had more close friends, then fell off? If so, do you think it’s the same story for other men you know? I’m wondering if, among common rites of passage that narrow our ability to keep contacts, some wreak more havoc on some men than on some women.
This is a really great question. I’ve been thinking about it a lot since I saw it and I don’t think I have a great answer. I definitely had a number of close friendships through college and getting married (which was right after college). I think probably around that point is when it started for all of us (my friends and I). Marriage, careers, kids, etc.
As I think it through, there are probably many factors at work including societal norms suggesting moms get together with no such expectation for dads, the unwillingness of men to reach out to one another for help (which comes from SO MANY places), and, in my case for sure, a lack of effort.
Thanks for the thought provoking question. I’m going to continue pondering it and ask some of my dad contingent their thoughts as well.
Just wanted to write in to say that I love everything about this exchange, both your insight and the way you're trying to build connection, Nathaniel, and your question, K.
I don’t mean to needle you with this question at all, but if marriage was a turning point in your and your friends’ maintenance of friendships, what might that say about the expectations placed on married couples to be each other’s social life? Or maybe there’s something there about how women are socialized to do “kinwork” - to maintain ties with family, including their in-laws’ family - that also affects friendships? I am genuinely asking; there are a lot of different models for successful marriages, and yet we both seem to take for granted the same friendship cliffs. Personally, I’m looking forward to when my kids are a bit older and I feel less overwhelmed, and until then I just try to be funny in the group chat.
There may be something to the socialization of women to do the work of maintaining connections. I can definitely see that as a possible factor. As I’ve taken more time to think about it, I also think there has to be some factor that influences how us men choose to spend our time.
For example, when my wife has nothing going on during an evening, she fairly regularly calls friends and family and talks. When I have the same time available, I’ll read or watch a baseball game or mow the lawn. The thought of calling my dad or a friend doesn’t even occur to me. Therefore, the need to purposely connect.
This is all very interesting, thank you for the “conversation”.
Hurricane Debby has made our lake week rainier and more inside than expected, so here I am. I’ll only say I hope at some point we can get past the (admittedly amusing) “Tim Walz as embodiment of dad” fantasies, or aspirations as the case may be, and talk about, for lack of a better term, our cultural tendency towards Daddy issues— how limiting our idea of fathers as caregivers is, how emotionally constricted and consumed with making us tough or successful or conforming to tradition, which so often leaves us feeling unseen, unloved, inadequate. How we are trained to respond to our country, to our leaders, in so many ways by how we respond to our fathers. And how our joy in the present moment is tied up in all of that. How our experience of both being mothered and fathered shapes how we relate to authority, to leadership, to notions of obligation and responsibility and care. And how if we don’t think about how that’s all connected then we’re likely to use our public lives to work out our unexamined private ones.
My husband actually made the remark "I wish Tim Walz was my dad." He was raised by a hard-working single mom; his parents divorced when he was an infant. His dad was the stereotypical unreliable, stand-offish divorced dad who never showed up when he was supposed to, canceled plans at the last minute, etc. There can definitely be something poignant about seeing a fun, hands-on, caring dad when you've never had such a figure in your own life.
Really great point. I wish that there was nobody who needed to crave a hands-on, caring dad but what a wonderful gift to give to others to at least be that for folks vicariously.
This article really helped. To hear that Walz is listening to his vegetarian daughter means the world to me. Here’s hoping that she becomes vegan and encourages her family (meaning especially her dad,) to realize that climate change means no hunting or factory farms among other factors
One of the fun things about having regular commenters over a long period of time is you learn new things about them. I didn't know that veganism was a big passion of yours.
The very best time in my life, as a dad, teacher and all around dude, were when my kids were your ages. Now they’re adults and living their own lives, but those halcyon days of adolescent summer with them were sublime.
Kids are hard, and forever, and even harder when they’re older. When they’re little, they scrape their knee, they cry piteously, you spray it with Bactine (and don’t forget to blow on it!), slap on a band aid, kiss them and distract them.
When they’re adult, well… there’s no easy way to put a band aid on a heart. Or an ego. Or sorrow. Loving your kids as adults might be the ultimate challenge of parenthood.
This is a really beautiful reflection and, though I've heard similarly before, I never tire of reminders from parents of older kids for me to really soak in the gift of these years.
I know a few other Dads like yourself that have more flexible work arrangements than their partners and so end up being much more involved in primary caregiving, and find it such a meaningful experience which they wouldn't trade for anything. It is always nice to be reminded that caregiving is good for men's health and wellbeing, not just those who receive the care.
This piece is sending me in lots of interesting directions, thanks so much for writing it!
Something I think is at least tangentially relevant is I realizes this Father’s Day that I saw about a million “World’s Best Dad” tee shirts that day but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a “World’s Best Mom” tee shirt.
Do you have reliable sources for these allegations? Was it all "riots," or was some of it peaceful protests, albeit disrupted at times by outside agitators?
I am going to shut this particular thread down. Any further comments will be deleted. Holly, I should have said something earlier, but TJ Swift comes here occasionally to make comments in this vein. I have made them the offer to email me, but have told them that I will not be arguing with them in my comments. I appreciate your attempt, Holly, to engage in good faith but I should have commented earlier to end this thread. TJ Swift, you have my email.
Tangentially ... If my White Midwestern dad were still with us, it would have been his 100th birthday this past Sunday. So I've been thinking about dads, and my particular dad, a lot. He was Fun Dad until I hit puberty with all its turmoil and confusions, and then he became Ghost Dad. I must have been close to 40 before he ever said "I love you" to me (we both cried). In one of the last conversations we had, when dementia was turning him back into Ghost Dad, he told me about coming home from the Pacific in WWII, landing in Seattle on New Year's Eve, having been ripped from his rural family, witnessed death, experienced dengue fever, been far away for far too long, been aged beyond his young-adult years. Mom said it was the only time she had ever heard him talk about his wartime experience out loud. He didn't know a sparkplug from a server, but he sure would have loved Wordle. He would have reveled in this political moment. He would have hoped with me. He would have gone door-knocking with me, if I asked him to. What a blessing, to know that about my nerdy progressive dad.
Sending love to you and all the things your dad was, all the things he didn’t quite know to be, and all the ways that his love lives with you!
Watching all the memes and tweets about Tim Walz has been really funny, but you bring up a great point, Garrett, about the connectivity of dads.
I heard an NPR story several years ago about the epidemic of male loneliness and it resonated big time. I have one really good friend. We grew up together, talk or text at least daily, have been there for every one of our big life events, the whole nine yards. Other than him, it’s crickets. I have acquaintances, but not friends. Then I looked around at other men I know and saw the same thing. I started making an effort to initiate purposeful connections with other men I know. I started texting randomly to grab a beer or dinner. Sometimes it’s just two of us and sometimes we need a bigger table. It’s been pretty great overall, but I learned something very quickly. Purposeful connection is hard work. I go too long between sending out invites and often find I’m sending them when it’s convenient in my life which suggests that I’m not prioritizing this as much as I’d like to believe I am.
Regardless, I’m determined to keep it up. We need to be talking to each other and sharing thoughts about being dads, parenting kids, being husbands, masculinity in general, and how to do all of this. We might as well just admit that we’re all scared to death pretty much all the time and work together to get through it. It sure beats an epidemic of loneliness.
Connection is hard work! As a parent of two kids under five I appreciate that. Which makes me wonder: was there a time in your adult life when you had more close friends, then fell off? If so, do you think it’s the same story for other men you know? I’m wondering if, among common rites of passage that narrow our ability to keep contacts, some wreak more havoc on some men than on some women.
This is a really great question. I’ve been thinking about it a lot since I saw it and I don’t think I have a great answer. I definitely had a number of close friendships through college and getting married (which was right after college). I think probably around that point is when it started for all of us (my friends and I). Marriage, careers, kids, etc.
As I think it through, there are probably many factors at work including societal norms suggesting moms get together with no such expectation for dads, the unwillingness of men to reach out to one another for help (which comes from SO MANY places), and, in my case for sure, a lack of effort.
Thanks for the thought provoking question. I’m going to continue pondering it and ask some of my dad contingent their thoughts as well.
Just wanted to write in to say that I love everything about this exchange, both your insight and the way you're trying to build connection, Nathaniel, and your question, K.
I don’t mean to needle you with this question at all, but if marriage was a turning point in your and your friends’ maintenance of friendships, what might that say about the expectations placed on married couples to be each other’s social life? Or maybe there’s something there about how women are socialized to do “kinwork” - to maintain ties with family, including their in-laws’ family - that also affects friendships? I am genuinely asking; there are a lot of different models for successful marriages, and yet we both seem to take for granted the same friendship cliffs. Personally, I’m looking forward to when my kids are a bit older and I feel less overwhelmed, and until then I just try to be funny in the group chat.
No needling perceived, not to worry.
There may be something to the socialization of women to do the work of maintaining connections. I can definitely see that as a possible factor. As I’ve taken more time to think about it, I also think there has to be some factor that influences how us men choose to spend our time.
For example, when my wife has nothing going on during an evening, she fairly regularly calls friends and family and talks. When I have the same time available, I’ll read or watch a baseball game or mow the lawn. The thought of calling my dad or a friend doesn’t even occur to me. Therefore, the need to purposely connect.
This is all very interesting, thank you for the “conversation”.
Hurricane Debby has made our lake week rainier and more inside than expected, so here I am. I’ll only say I hope at some point we can get past the (admittedly amusing) “Tim Walz as embodiment of dad” fantasies, or aspirations as the case may be, and talk about, for lack of a better term, our cultural tendency towards Daddy issues— how limiting our idea of fathers as caregivers is, how emotionally constricted and consumed with making us tough or successful or conforming to tradition, which so often leaves us feeling unseen, unloved, inadequate. How we are trained to respond to our country, to our leaders, in so many ways by how we respond to our fathers. And how our joy in the present moment is tied up in all of that. How our experience of both being mothered and fathered shapes how we relate to authority, to leadership, to notions of obligation and responsibility and care. And how if we don’t think about how that’s all connected then we’re likely to use our public lives to work out our unexamined private ones.
Hope you're staying safe with the hurricane. I love every sentence of this. Absolutely!
My husband actually made the remark "I wish Tim Walz was my dad." He was raised by a hard-working single mom; his parents divorced when he was an infant. His dad was the stereotypical unreliable, stand-offish divorced dad who never showed up when he was supposed to, canceled plans at the last minute, etc. There can definitely be something poignant about seeing a fun, hands-on, caring dad when you've never had such a figure in your own life.
Really great point. I wish that there was nobody who needed to crave a hands-on, caring dad but what a wonderful gift to give to others to at least be that for folks vicariously.
This article really helped. To hear that Walz is listening to his vegetarian daughter means the world to me. Here’s hoping that she becomes vegan and encourages her family (meaning especially her dad,) to realize that climate change means no hunting or factory farms among other factors
One of the fun things about having regular commenters over a long period of time is you learn new things about them. I didn't know that veganism was a big passion of yours.
Oh yes; because I LOVE animals and nature. thanks
This is so beautiful you late-night worker!
Thanks for a great book club last night!
The very best time in my life, as a dad, teacher and all around dude, were when my kids were your ages. Now they’re adults and living their own lives, but those halcyon days of adolescent summer with them were sublime.
Kids are hard, and forever, and even harder when they’re older. When they’re little, they scrape their knee, they cry piteously, you spray it with Bactine (and don’t forget to blow on it!), slap on a band aid, kiss them and distract them.
When they’re adult, well… there’s no easy way to put a band aid on a heart. Or an ego. Or sorrow. Loving your kids as adults might be the ultimate challenge of parenthood.
This is a really beautiful reflection and, though I've heard similarly before, I never tire of reminders from parents of older kids for me to really soak in the gift of these years.
I know a few other Dads like yourself that have more flexible work arrangements than their partners and so end up being much more involved in primary caregiving, and find it such a meaningful experience which they wouldn't trade for anything. It is always nice to be reminded that caregiving is good for men's health and wellbeing, not just those who receive the care.
This piece is sending me in lots of interesting directions, thanks so much for writing it!
Something I think is at least tangentially relevant is I realizes this Father’s Day that I saw about a million “World’s Best Dad” tee shirts that day but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a “World’s Best Mom” tee shirt.
Beautiful. Thank you Garrett. I wish I could join and support you AND share this with everyone I know.
During the riots of 2020, Hope Walz was sharing intelligence she got from Dad with the arsonist and looters on Telegraph and TickToc
“Time to run police coming”
“No National guard tonight”
“Cop line at Chicago and Lake”
“ACAB”
America’s family. So wholesome.
Do you have reliable sources for these allegations? Was it all "riots," or was some of it peaceful protests, albeit disrupted at times by outside agitators?
I have always wondered. Is box wine as good as they say? Does it interfere with Xanax?
I took pity in you. See, there’s this thing called google…tells you stuff.
Here is some stuff for you.
Please respond with box wine recommendations. Ty
https://www.newsweek.com/hope-walz-controversial-tweets-national-guard-resurface-after-vp-announcement-1935440
I am going to shut this particular thread down. Any further comments will be deleted. Holly, I should have said something earlier, but TJ Swift comes here occasionally to make comments in this vein. I have made them the offer to email me, but have told them that I will not be arguing with them in my comments. I appreciate your attempt, Holly, to engage in good faith but I should have commented earlier to end this thread. TJ Swift, you have my email.