Anyone who is interested in further analysis of this type of "comedy" should subscribe to Seth Simons' newsletter: https://www.humorism.xyz/
Seth has been writing about right-wing comics for years, and has suffered greatly for it. These guys and their followers are all aware of him and have made his life hell in a lot of ways, but he keeps on going, even though you can tell he often thinks it's futile. His goal is really to create a historical record of the things that are being said.
I have spent some time now since your recommendation and find his work really valuable. I think that we might have slightly different interests though (both useful). I think while it's impossible to analyze without critique, I'm less interested in pointing out what's' dangerous about this rhetoric (which it looks like he's doing so well) then understanding what longings it seeks to answer for its audience (and what alternative means of responding to that longing might look like).
I look forward to TWP every week, but this time you've really outdone yourself. First, the content. Thank you for taking on this topic, that, though imperative to address and understand, is so onerous to experience while being a woman that it precludes my engagement. In fact, I have officially given myself permission to barricade any DudeBroDude content from entering my consciousness unfiltered. I'm not sure I'd trust anyone to do a better job of filtering and critiquing it than you. Second: the writing. Your writing this week is devastating. Spot on, tonally and witheringly astute. Last - the Titus Andronicus finish smote me. I feel changed.
Yes. Raising a teenage boy right now is frighteningly familiar from my own teenage years. Which, is not supposed to be the way we raised them, right? Your vape metaphor . . . oof. Please keep exploring.
I would LOVE to see you write more on this. This really is our next big conversation, isn't it? You and @Ruth Whippman are both helping me understand all this better and not just want to...I dunno...hide in a hole.
"Kamala Harris was called both a sex worker and the antichrist, a multi-hyphenate career of which I was previously unaware."
Ha! Hillary Clinton managed to run a successful baby-blood operation for YEARS in that pizza place, all while ALSO running her international team of assassins!
Just another example of the double standard to which women in politics are held! They have to work two-to-three secretive Illuminati jobs for every one that male politicians have to work!
Great stuff! My sons are 18 & 24 - we live in Oakland, CA and they are half Guatemalan. Just wanting to frame the source here: for this podcast you might find Illuminating via a vis young bro culture which my concerned eldest son sent me. https://youtu.be/dKEv1jVeyb4
Yes he’s very anxious about the state of the world. Probably not from the outside as in look what’s happening to young men! But definitely “I’m afraid for my future, how can I succeed and I’m very concerned about all the pain I see in the world.” I actually found it relieving to listen to because the outlook expressed shows some real compassion - so I was relieved that this is what my son is resonating with despite how angry he feels about injustice etc.
This was very good, Garrett. I appreciate good comedy. I mean the stand up comic who makes you think. The comic you watch and find yourself thinking about the jokes days later. Appreciating the way they structured the joke, but more importantly the way the joke gets to the heart of some societal problem or maybe points out a problem you never saw before.
This is not comedy. It’s cruel and performative and lazy.
Thank you for putting this piece out there and for linking to other resources. The state of our young men is something I think about a lot. I look forward to reading more.
Hinchcliffe's kind of so-called comedy is a genre of spectator sport that makes me think of the early-20th-century self-flagellating Opus Dei cult that Leonard Leo and Vance are into. You self-flagellate in front of Hinchcliffe (or maybe just call it self-deprecration) as a way to say "Yeah, your racism sexism is funny isn't it and I can mirror your humor but not as well as you oh white supremacist alpha boy master, I defer as you hit better and we're all laughing isn't violence a joke so funny this master-slave right of passage but I need the chance and money". It's sad, troubling, and clearly rooted in violence and dominance. His schtick of "supporting new comedians" reminds me of Ponzi Pimp Andrew Tate (who may well end up in jail but has damaged generations of boys and therefore society) and Tate's lessons of misogyny as a get-rich-quick scheme. I'm not joking, see https://booksupstairs.ie/product/clown-world-four-years-inside-andrew-tates-manosphere/
I look forward to more of your writing on this very important topic, as a man raising future men and women. It's clear to me there's a concerted effort to subjugate women and girls as a way to define successful manhood. Whether this is coming from a religious or secular perspective doesn't change the effects and consequences. I find I'm less and less interested in men like Hinchcliffe's inner child issues than the people they inflict violence on 'for entertainment'. If you haven't seen A Clockwork Orange and the scene where the protagonist sings Singin in the Rain, I recommend the film. Unlike Tarantino's 'comedies of violence', Kubrick uses violence to take a stand against it, yet both work with the aesthetics of violence.
Thank you for your perspective on this. Many of us who have wondered at the viciousness of comics (of all genders) these days have been hesitant to speak of the connections we see to the male ‘jousting for status’ socialization. You and other thoughtful men are helpful in looking at it from your vantage point.
It makes me, an older woman with a good sense of humor and dislike of violence, feel less crazy to hear your voice.
Truly appreciate your analysis of just how deep the talons of this brand of, I guess “comedy” has dug in. Some More News took on the collapse of conservative comedy a few years ago, really before this Rogan-sphere of comics like Theo Von and Hinchcliffe took off. Conservative comedy just became a sort of meta-commentary of being about the reaction to the punchline after the fact, not the laughter in the moment and it’s not really evolved from that. They just keep repeating different variations of the same joke and preemptively calling anyone who might hypothetically be offended a snowflake. It’s truly bizarre, but yet it’s attracting millions of views per episode. If the Left is serious about building a multi-cultural, class-based movement we have to figure out how to reach these boys before they fall into the manosphere, and it’s the job of the white men who are already in the movement to do it. This is why I appreciate the work of people like Cody Johnston and Robert Evans (from Behind the Bastards) for doing that direct outreach in presenting positive masculinity.
Andrew Schulz and Aakash Singh are on friendly terms with Trump and do comedy which is relatively polite (by 2024 standards), or at least not mean spirited like the rest of them. Should have gotten those guys.
This Tony Hinchcliffe it says right on his Wikipedia that he called an Asian comedian a racist slur while on stage. WTF were they thinking hiring this guy? This is why the chuds never will have any traction in electoral politics. Stuff that gets likes from randos on Substack goes down like a lead balloon in the real world. Unfortunately, the Republicans have too few men behind the scenes who are talented organizers. Seem to be mostly frat boys from Middle America who serve a few years in Washington then go back to their Dad's businesses in Kentucky or whatever. This is also why Trump shouldn't have purged guys like Reince Preibus, despite very minor differences between them, because the party has so few talented organizers and strategists.
Anyone who is interested in further analysis of this type of "comedy" should subscribe to Seth Simons' newsletter: https://www.humorism.xyz/
Seth has been writing about right-wing comics for years, and has suffered greatly for it. These guys and their followers are all aware of him and have made his life hell in a lot of ways, but he keeps on going, even though you can tell he often thinks it's futile. His goal is really to create a historical record of the things that are being said.
Thanks for that recommendation!
It might spare you from having to spend so much time immersed in this world! Seth often posts long transcripts of podcasts, etc.
I have spent some time now since your recommendation and find his work really valuable. I think that we might have slightly different interests though (both useful). I think while it's impossible to analyze without critique, I'm less interested in pointing out what's' dangerous about this rhetoric (which it looks like he's doing so well) then understanding what longings it seeks to answer for its audience (and what alternative means of responding to that longing might look like).
I look forward to TWP every week, but this time you've really outdone yourself. First, the content. Thank you for taking on this topic, that, though imperative to address and understand, is so onerous to experience while being a woman that it precludes my engagement. In fact, I have officially given myself permission to barricade any DudeBroDude content from entering my consciousness unfiltered. I'm not sure I'd trust anyone to do a better job of filtering and critiquing it than you. Second: the writing. Your writing this week is devastating. Spot on, tonally and witheringly astute. Last - the Titus Andronicus finish smote me. I feel changed.
oh wow, this is so, so kind. And pretty good move on establishing at least one layer of remove with uncut dudebrodude content.
Yes. Raising a teenage boy right now is frighteningly familiar from my own teenage years. Which, is not supposed to be the way we raised them, right? Your vape metaphor . . . oof. Please keep exploring.
I realize I shouldn't be surprised that so little has changed but I have, in fact, been surprised!
I would LOVE to see you write more on this. This really is our next big conversation, isn't it? You and @Ruth Whippman are both helping me understand all this better and not just want to...I dunno...hide in a hole.
Lots of great reasons to hide in a hole!
Thank you sincerely for studying that unfunny drivel so I don't have to!
Thank YOU for reading
This is great! And thanks for the shoutout …can’t wait to read your book
love your work so much
"Kamala Harris was called both a sex worker and the antichrist, a multi-hyphenate career of which I was previously unaware."
Ha! Hillary Clinton managed to run a successful baby-blood operation for YEARS in that pizza place, all while ALSO running her international team of assassins!
Just another example of the double standard to which women in politics are held! They have to work two-to-three secretive Illuminati jobs for every one that male politicians have to work!
Exactly. Typical!
Great stuff! My sons are 18 & 24 - we live in Oakland, CA and they are half Guatemalan. Just wanting to frame the source here: for this podcast you might find Illuminating via a vis young bro culture which my concerned eldest son sent me. https://youtu.be/dKEv1jVeyb4
Ooh thanks for this. It sounds like your son is thinking really deeply about all this, is that right?
Yes he’s very anxious about the state of the world. Probably not from the outside as in look what’s happening to young men! But definitely “I’m afraid for my future, how can I succeed and I’m very concerned about all the pain I see in the world.” I actually found it relieving to listen to because the outlook expressed shows some real compassion - so I was relieved that this is what my son is resonating with despite how angry he feels about injustice etc.
Sounds like you raised a really good guy (and also, his anxiety about the state of the world resonates with me deeply).
That last paragraph really hits home—so much compassion in recognizing the limited rulebook allotted to young men. Beautiful piece, Garrett.
Appreciate it and well put: it is a limited rulebook.
This was very good, Garrett. I appreciate good comedy. I mean the stand up comic who makes you think. The comic you watch and find yourself thinking about the jokes days later. Appreciating the way they structured the joke, but more importantly the way the joke gets to the heart of some societal problem or maybe points out a problem you never saw before.
This is not comedy. It’s cruel and performative and lazy.
Thank you for putting this piece out there and for linking to other resources. The state of our young men is something I think about a lot. I look forward to reading more.
Absolutely agreed about the value of great comedy.
Hinchcliffe's kind of so-called comedy is a genre of spectator sport that makes me think of the early-20th-century self-flagellating Opus Dei cult that Leonard Leo and Vance are into. You self-flagellate in front of Hinchcliffe (or maybe just call it self-deprecration) as a way to say "Yeah, your racism sexism is funny isn't it and I can mirror your humor but not as well as you oh white supremacist alpha boy master, I defer as you hit better and we're all laughing isn't violence a joke so funny this master-slave right of passage but I need the chance and money". It's sad, troubling, and clearly rooted in violence and dominance. His schtick of "supporting new comedians" reminds me of Ponzi Pimp Andrew Tate (who may well end up in jail but has damaged generations of boys and therefore society) and Tate's lessons of misogyny as a get-rich-quick scheme. I'm not joking, see https://booksupstairs.ie/product/clown-world-four-years-inside-andrew-tates-manosphere/
Oh that's a really interesting connection that I never would have made, but definitely resonates.
I look forward to more of your writing on this very important topic, as a man raising future men and women. It's clear to me there's a concerted effort to subjugate women and girls as a way to define successful manhood. Whether this is coming from a religious or secular perspective doesn't change the effects and consequences. I find I'm less and less interested in men like Hinchcliffe's inner child issues than the people they inflict violence on 'for entertainment'. If you haven't seen A Clockwork Orange and the scene where the protagonist sings Singin in the Rain, I recommend the film. Unlike Tarantino's 'comedies of violence', Kubrick uses violence to take a stand against it, yet both work with the aesthetics of violence.
Thank you for your perspective on this. Many of us who have wondered at the viciousness of comics (of all genders) these days have been hesitant to speak of the connections we see to the male ‘jousting for status’ socialization. You and other thoughtful men are helpful in looking at it from your vantage point.
It makes me, an older woman with a good sense of humor and dislike of violence, feel less crazy to hear your voice.
Truly appreciate your analysis of just how deep the talons of this brand of, I guess “comedy” has dug in. Some More News took on the collapse of conservative comedy a few years ago, really before this Rogan-sphere of comics like Theo Von and Hinchcliffe took off. Conservative comedy just became a sort of meta-commentary of being about the reaction to the punchline after the fact, not the laughter in the moment and it’s not really evolved from that. They just keep repeating different variations of the same joke and preemptively calling anyone who might hypothetically be offended a snowflake. It’s truly bizarre, but yet it’s attracting millions of views per episode. If the Left is serious about building a multi-cultural, class-based movement we have to figure out how to reach these boys before they fall into the manosphere, and it’s the job of the white men who are already in the movement to do it. This is why I appreciate the work of people like Cody Johnston and Robert Evans (from Behind the Bastards) for doing that direct outreach in presenting positive masculinity.
Andrew Schulz and Aakash Singh are on friendly terms with Trump and do comedy which is relatively polite (by 2024 standards), or at least not mean spirited like the rest of them. Should have gotten those guys.
This Tony Hinchcliffe it says right on his Wikipedia that he called an Asian comedian a racist slur while on stage. WTF were they thinking hiring this guy? This is why the chuds never will have any traction in electoral politics. Stuff that gets likes from randos on Substack goes down like a lead balloon in the real world. Unfortunately, the Republicans have too few men behind the scenes who are talented organizers. Seem to be mostly frat boys from Middle America who serve a few years in Washington then go back to their Dad's businesses in Kentucky or whatever. This is also why Trump shouldn't have purged guys like Reince Preibus, despite very minor differences between them, because the party has so few talented organizers and strategists.
That's really sad.